illegal immigrants

SEAnative,

It looks your comments were directed more towards Ordinanceman than myself, but I'll comment anyway.

But you would be ignorant to believe that these people want to be here illegally.

Of course someone would prefer being here legally vs. illegally. However, the people that are here illegally prefer being here illegally vs. staying in Mexico, otherwise they wouldn't be here illegally.

It is very difficult to get papers these days, because this has become a country of selfish people who are unwilling to share the wealth.

It is exactly *because* we have "wealth redistribution systems" (welfare, state-funded healthcare, etc) that has caused people to want to protect the borders.

You're right that it is not easy to be here legally from south of the border. However, for someone that's here illegally, it is easy to get welfare or have the state take care of providing healthcare.

I think the real solution is to abolish welfare and other socialist programs. If no one (legal or illegal) can get a free hand-out, then those that live here legally won't have a basis for objecting those who are here illegally. If someone is here illegally and they can't "steal" from others (through socialist programs) and they have to earn their living just like everyone else, what do I care if they're here? Why would anyone care?

That has made its way all the way up to the highest governments, and now there are laws that make it next to impossible for the average Mexican family to be allowed into the U.S.

I don't think there are laws that make it especially hard for Mexicans to immigrate to the US. I think the laws are equally stringent no matter your origins.. it just so happens that most Mexicans probably don't meet the requirements for entering, and because they are close and it is relatively easy to enter (vs. from some third-world country on the other side of the globe), the issue comes up more often and is more publicized because it happens more. But I don't know of any laws making it specifically difficult for a Mexican family to immigrate to the US vs. from anywhere else.

But I'm sure I might as well be speaking to a brick wall, so I'll end my argument here.

In case you change your mind... :-).

You're right, that was directed moreso at Mr. Ord. Like I said, I agree with your idea of illegals receiving welfare, etc.... with the exception of the children. I can even see the benefits of this idea:

I think the real solution is to abolish welfare and other socialist programs.

However, disability and other special cases would have to be given exception.

If no one (legal or illegal) can get a free hand-out, then those that live here legally won't have a basis for objecting those who are here illegally. If someone is here illegally and they can't "steal" from others (through socialist programs) and they have to earn their living just like everyone else, what do I care if they're here? Why would anyone care?

Many don't need a reason. The fact that they're here causes people to say "they're taking our jobs" and whatnot, in which case I point to what I said about Americans sharing the wealth, and that these people are providing for their families. Besides that, it's not like their taking your 9-5 accounting job. The vast majority are doing manual labor that most other people don't want to do anyway. And even illegal immigrants pay taxes, and they contribute far more to the economy than they take away.

I don't mean to turn this Arizona forum into a political forum. I was just responding to the topic. But I used to feel the same way the average American feels about illegal immigrants until I married into a family of them. Now I see how ignorant and selfish and insensitive I was.

SEAnative,

I can even see the benefits of this idea:

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I think the real solution is to abolish welfare and other socialist programs.

However, disability and other special cases would have to be given exception.

Personally, I wouldn't make any exceptions. There are several reasons I'm against socialist programs, the most important being that it robs an individual of their property (their money) without their consent. Having welfare or other socialist programs available for anyone, including the disabled, causes that to happen.

If socialist programs were abolished, there would be few people truly in need of assistance, like the disabled that you mention. With an extraordinarily smaller percentage of people "sucking" money out of the system, surely charities could pick up where government left off in assisting those that truly need it.

Many don't need a reason. The fact that they're here causes people to say "they're taking our jobs" and whatnot, in which case I point to what I said about Americans sharing the wealth, and that these people are providing for their families.

The way for one to protect their job is not to outlaw competition (whether it be from their neighbor or someone in another country) but rather to do the job better than anyone else and at a competitive price. If someone can do the job better than you, or is willing to do the same job for less money, then you deserve to lose your job.

And even illegal immigrants pay taxes, and they contribute far more to the economy than they take away.

I really don't have any statistics to make an argument on that one way or the other. I know they pay excise taxes (sales tax, phone taxes, etc) because they spend money like anyone else. But do they pay income taxes as well?

I don't mean to turn this Arizona forum into a political forum. I was just responding to the topic.

No problem, so long as it relates to Arizona still (and it seems to), I don't see a problem with it.

By the way, NickCoons, I was hoping to see a reply from you in the thread I posted regarding diversity in Phoenix.

Just did that now, but don't have much to offer in that arena.

I see that you visit this forum often (being the webmaster and all)

I visit the forums now and then :-).

and while I know you don't live in Phoenix, surely you've been there, no?

Actually I've lived in Phoenix and its suburbs my entire life (I was born in Phoenix).

But do they pay income taxes as well?

Just did that now, but don't have much to offer in that arena.

Actually I've lived in Phoenix and its suburbs my entire life (I was born in Phoenix).

As I've lived here my entire life, I don't really have a frame of reference for comparison. Things like seeing billboards in Spanish (which you mentioned you've seen in the Bay area, and we see here also) don't occur to me as being any more unusual than seeing others in English. The only things I notice are those that my inlaws (from the east) point out to me as being odd when they visit.

This student @ Virginia Tech was an illegal immigrant. He had more rights the us US citizens. He was free to buy firearms and whatever else. Now a costly price was paid to innocent people. Where I live since the Hurricanes immigrants have moved in by the truck loads. Majority are from Texas. They are driving on our streets with illegal vehicle tags, no insurance etc. When is the US government going to open there eyes that we are in trouble with these people. Oh this Cho fellow was not a rag head he was oriental. Now we have to watch those people? Shortay

shortay,

This student @ Virginia Tech was an illegal immigrant. He had more rights the us US citizens.

You confused "breaking the law and getting away with it" with "having more rights." Just because he may not be driving with valid tags or insurance doesn't mean he has more rights than a US citizen. Any US citizen could do the same and hope they aren't caught.

He was free to buy firearms and whatever else.

As are the rest of us (see the 2nd amendment).

Now a costly price was paid to innocent people.

This will continue to be the price of gun control laws. Without so-called "gun-free zones", or other restrictions on allowing people to carry firearms, groups of unarmed people will always be targeted.

Had people at the school been allowed to carry firearms, this student would have been taken down by his peers long before he could have done much damage.

They are driving on our streets with illegal vehicle tags, no insurance etc.

US citizens do this in abundance as well.

When is the US government going to open there eyes that we are in trouble with these people.

When is the average person going to open their eyes and realize that people from all walks of life commit crimes and that we need to go after these individuals, not the groups of people they come from?

Oh this Cho fellow was not a rag head he was oriental. Now we have to watch those people?

That's absurd. An act committed by one Asian does not mean that the rest of the Asian population needs to be carefully watched. If a white person blows up a building, do we start profiling whites as likely bombers? Of course not, and it makes no sense with any other ethnicity.

illegal immigrants are "TERRORISTS" and to make things worse they enter into this GREAT COUNTRY illegally. Illegal immigrants terrorize our community, form gangs, deal drugs and commit murders and Before the police can arrest them they run back to Mexico and hide like the cowards they are. those fat poiticians in washington claim their fixing this problem but their still entering into the US. The way to fix this "illegal immigration"problem is to send our police and military sniper's to the borders.

Destroy Illegal Immigrants, I live in Virginia my friend and I hear your sufferings. Since I don't live in your community I can't relate to the "immigrant terrorism" as you put it. I know that there has been too much red tape between immgration laws and the fat politicians on capital hill. I know, I feel you. What can we do? Move to a better place or defend what yours by the right to bear arms. I can't afford to move, but I surely have what I hope will protect me and my family if you know what I mean. As for terrorist cowards you say, our community has violence, I guess you could call it terrorism but the face of violence over here doesn't have any specific skin color. I think people love to rave about terrorism and boldly want to shed blood or fight evil with a greater evil as a solution. Sometimes as entertaining as it sounds, AWESOME IDEA ! But, I know that we easily forget to count our own blessings such as in the midst of all this violence God is sparing us in particular. Now why? Thats the brian buster for me. Assume for a second, just how many people are being murdered b/c of illegal immgts like you say. What if every little thing you do today not huge but little decreases those numbers. My friend you would ultimately hold the keys to the kingdom in my book. You know if the US really wanted Mexico or any other illegal immgrating (bad english) country wiped off the face of the earth we could but yet we choose not to. Now, I can't help but think since we have the power to unleash utter hell that there must!! HAS to BE another reason. So, I think we play for keeps and the rest of the world will be anxious to see what we do about it. Remember our history my fellow countryman. We set the rythem and pace as the leading force in world, we lead by example always. I don't care what the hell other countries say about us. They need to dust off their own front porches before they dust off ours. I know that I strayed off course a little but I will bring it back to the little things today that can be done. Well, lets see I gave 5 bucks to a black guy standing on the street the other day holding a sign. Something I don't do often. But, maybe in my mind I thought just maybe what if that was a small test for to take. I had the money to give so I did maybe what goes around comes around right? I don't know, but maybe. Maybe, he will go buy a sniper rifle with his last 5 bucks helps to catch a cab to the gun shop. Then go down to the border like you said. Hee Hee LOL. Well, I can't say much except I did my part in changing the world by a small small step. Realistically, he probably drank it. But, maybe didn't. Ok, I know your tired of hearing my thoughts and hope that I wasn't to conservative for you. Please post back. Freddy